Ep 91- Navigating Innovation and Culture with Clarissa O'Connell and Lynne Doherty

Transcript

Transcripts are generated by machine learning, so typos may be present.

BTB (00:00):

Welcome to the Building Texas Business Podcast, interviews with thought leaders and organizational visionaries from across industry. Join us as we talk about the latest trends, challenges, and growth opportunities to take your business to the next level. The Building Texas Business Podcast is brought to you by BoyarMiller, providing counsel beyond expectations. Find out how we can make a meaningful difference to your business at boyarmiller.com and by your podcast team where having your own podcast is as easy as being a guest on ours. Discover more at yourpodcast.team. Now here’s your host, Chris Hanslik.

Chris (00:40):

In this episode, you will meet Lynn Doherty and Clarissa O’Connell of Sonar. Both Lynn and Clarissa share how being based in Austin, Texas has helped accelerate their company’s growth and influenced its culture. I’m going to say hello to Lynn and Clarissa from Sonar. Thanks for joining me on Building Texas Business.

Lynn (01:01):

Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Great to be here.

Chris (01:03):

So I’m going to just have a fun free flowing conversation, but I do want to start with each of you telling us about yourself, but also about Sonar. What does the company do? What is it known for?

Lynn (01:15):

Great.

(01:16):

Yeah, I’ll start. My name is Lynn Doherty and I lead our go-to-market team here at Sonar, which if you think about that, is almost everything that directly touches a customer. It’s sales, it’s support, it’s engineering, it’s our customer success organizations, our demand marketing organizations. And so I’ve been here at Sonar a little over a year now and it’s been a great and wild ride. To give you a little background on who Sonar is, so we’re a company founded in Geneva in 2008, and since the beginning we have been an organization focused on developers, a developer first company. We came to Austin in 2018. It was our first US office is in Austin. And since then we’ve continued to build out the team in Austin, including our CEO, Clarissa, our head of hr, our new general C, our new CFO all sit out of Austin. So Austin is our second biggest office outside of Geneva where we were founded. What we do is we focus on developers and it’s around reaching the market of developers. We have 7 million developers that use our products. We have 28,000 organizations that use us today, and it’s all around how do we make developers more effective, more productive? We call it building better, faster, and that’s what we’re focused on is how do we do that? Giving developers actionable intelligence so that they can build better faster.

Chris (02:49):

That’s great. So is it kind of an open source type concept then?

Lynn (02:53):

We start in open source that was our roots is we have an open source product and then have what we do at Sonar is sell the enterprise version of that product, the product that’s the commercial version. When you need more features and grow and scale, we developed a product that people can use when they sort of graduate from open source.

Chris (03:14):

Great. Well Lynn, I appreciate that. So Clarissa, let’s hear a little more about you and then your background and a little bit in the role you play at Sonar.

Clarissa (03:21):

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Clarissa O’Connell and I am the chief people officer here, and as you heard from Lynn, she manages the business and I’m in the lucky position that I get to manage the people that help drive all of those activities. So I’m really excited that we’re in Austin, Texas. As you know, it’s a really thriving city, specifically for tech and for things like ai. So it’s a perfect place for us to be located. We have almost 200 people here in this Austin office. We are growing this office every single day with offers coming out on a regular basis, and I am in the really lucky position that I get to help drive the initiatives that help Lynn establish the protocols and sell the business for our customers. So I get to focus on things like making sure that we’re one of the top employers in Austin, the rewarding packages for our employees so that we can take the time to find really qualified individuals and then keep them here. And then all of the things that surround that, like culture, learning development, career advancement and training. We also partner with all of the major research universities in the region to be able to develop things like internship programs and make sure that we’re really socializing what it is that we do within the developer community and kind of embracing this really fast moving startup culture that Austin is really known for.

(04:38):

And all of those things put together are making us who we are. And the employees here are fantastic. Austin is amazing, and some of our smartest talent is coming from the Texas region, so really happy to be here to talk to you about businesses in Texas.

Chris (04:52):

Yeah, well, I’m not biased, but I’m not surprised you’re finding Texas and the workforce. I think it’s important. It’s one thing to have business friendly policies in place, which Texas certainly does, but you’ve got to match that with talent or the companies aren’t going to come and some of it may be a chicken or egg kind of thing. We do see, and I’m sure y’all are experiencing a migration of people to Texas where the companies are establishing themselves like you have and then trying to build from there. So to that lens, what are some of the emerging technologies or the trends that you see shaping Texas business and specifically in the Austin area, what are some of the trends that you’re seeing emerging that are helping you with this growth?

Lynn (05:34):

Why don’t I start, and Clarissa, you can add in if you have anything, but I’d say the biggest trend that we’re facing as a technology company and a software company for developers is every day the news around AI is coming out and changing and evolving incredibly quickly. For us, we really believe that the core of software development, whether designing program, validating the code that’s developed, it’s going to be enhanced by ai. And what that means is people, our customers, the roles as developers is going to evolve. We don’t believe any of those roles disappear, but we believe they change. And so it’s a big trend that’s out there that we see and our customers are faced with every day. It is something that we take into consideration as we evolve our business strategy, as we think about how we talk to our customers and how we help them solve the problems that they are facing today. And it’s one of the benefits of being in Austin is that it enables us to attract talent to help solve these problems as we develop our products.

Chris (06:40):

Yeah, I think just to step in, I think what’s important in there is the idea that AI doesn’t replace jobs. It may change and enhance because isn’t that what technology’s always done? As things have evolved, people have always adapted to the computer, hasn’t replaced them, even though with ai, I think there was that big fear, that myth that you need to debunk, right?

Lynn (07:03):

Yeah, no, you are exactly right. I mean, think of all of the different innovations across time that are going to displace people and people aren’t going to have jobs and it ultimately means new jobs and growth and it’s just different kinds of jobs with different skills.

Chris (07:20):

How has being in Austin helped position the company for the success that you’re seeing?

Clarissa (07:25):

And that’s exactly why we’re in Austin, right? We’re in this fortunate position where as a global company, the central time zone location is really perfect for us and we’ve got a really amazing strong pool of skilled workers that are coming to Austin, Texas from all over the world because it is this emerging tech friendly environment that people are embracing. And Austin is a pretty attractive city to live in. We’ve got really great weather, we’ve got really fantastic resources. We’ve got an infrastructure that supports all of these global individuals from across the world, and we’re finding new ways to get back to the community, which is also helping us draw really solid candidates, whether that’s through sonar serves is what we call it, but it’s when we take our amazing environment of individuals and we give back to our local communities. And so that helps us really retain and attract really strong talent. And all of those things equal us now out of office space. And so we’re actually today moving to more space in the building that we’re in so that we can continue to be an emerging talent where we can focus on hiring, bringing in those key people, expanding into those new technologies and bringing in those skill sets and diversifying the Austin region and the company itself. Well

Chris (08:36):

That’s really good to hear because in this environment you hear more about companies maybe shrinking office space not growing. So I’m sure the office market there in Austin appreciates that. Just while we’re on that topic, how are you managing with work remote policies while you expand take on more office space? Do you see your people coming in more over the last say, year or so than before?

Clarissa (09:01):

Yeah, we’re really lucky that our work environment here is extremely collaborative and because of the work that we do, oftentimes we do our best work all sitting in one room and whiteboarding things out and solving the problems as they come up. That’s really our workforce has embraced that opportunity to be able to interact with each other face-to-face. As an HR person, I think it’s a combination of people love working remote, but they also kind of miss that interaction. And so currently our workforce comes in every Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. And then on Wednesdays and Fridays we make those days optionals for our employee. They can come in if they want to interact. They also choose not to come in, they have the ability to work from home. But believe it or not, we have about 60% of our workforce that still comes in on Wednesdays and Fridays because that interaction has now become a thing.

(09:45):

We’re in this fortunate position being a global company that we work really hard, but we also have this European culture where it’s common for us to embrace that work-life balance. And so it’s common for us to do coffee chat meetings. We have the luxurious European coffee machine in the kitchen, so it’s dragging people into the office where they’re able to talk about those emerging technologies, how to continually improve and increase the company and really embrace our culture. So the one thing I think I’m really proud of is that people work really hard, they’re incredibly talented, so they’re driving the product to the next level and they’re embracing this interaction of culture. And so all of those things together are making it a pretty incredible place to work.

Chris (10:24):

That’s great. So Lynn, let’s talk a little bit about innovation. What are some of the things that you feel like sonars done in the last several years to really, I know you’re a technology company, so you probably said, look, that’s in our DNA, but what are you doing to really be or do you think is innovative for maybe your industry that has helped position the company to where it is today?

Lynn (10:49):

Yeah, you’re absolutely right, Chris. I mean, I think it is in our DNA, it’s part of what we do and developers are always at the forefront of technology, and so our customers challenge us to be better every day because they want to be better, they need to be better. And because we’re in this changing landscape, so a few things we’ve innovated on and we’re fortunate because our solution is a fit for really all industries, all types of organizations, all sizes. And so we’re focused on a few things that we’ve done recently, which is really interesting. We have just put out something called Sonar Cube Advanced Security. And so if you think about what that is, it’s helping developers make their applications more secure and security is a threat. Everybody in all walks of life, all organizations faces this threat of cybersecurity issues that can get embedded in code.

(11:43):

And so we support developers in not just helping them build faster, better quality applications, but now we’ve just put out something that enables them to do both code quality and security. It’s the first integrated solution to do that. So there are a lot of people that do either one or the other. We’re the first bringing that together into one integrated solution for a developer to use. So security is something that is a big innovation for us that we’ve just come out with. I’d also add the AI features that we have. How do you get assurance on your AI code? So a developer’s creating AI code, it’s automated, but you still want to make sure that code has good quality, good security, good maintainability. And so with our product, that’s a new innovation that we have is to how to make sure that all of that AI generated code, you have the same kind of confidence in that you do human written code,

Chris (12:44):

Good stuff. I mean security. You’re right. It becomes increasingly more of an issue because more and more things in the cloud, all of our information, and of course we know there’s a whole world of professional hackers out there just trying to get in. So I think it has a lot of people concerned and trusting whether that trust is well-placed or not. But I think to your point of focus on security, probably you can’t emphasize that enough.

Lynn (13:10):

Yeah, yeah, you’re absolutely right. I mean it’s a huge issue and huge concern, and we really believe if you start with the developers, as the application gets developed and build security in, you get a better outcome. Then you build an application and try to layer all of the protection on top of it. So it’s really about building security and at the development stage from the ground up, and we believe that’s a really important trend that we should be a part of.

Chris (13:38):

Clarissa, what are some of the investments, if you will, that sonars making in Austin to help support your growth strategy and how has that been playing out for you?

Clarissa (13:50):

Yeah, that’s a great question. So Austin as a farming tech city has this really entrepreneurial spirit where we’ve got these incredible talents from all over the globe that have come here. They really want to stay close to innovation and attract kind of that top talent for us. And our product allows us to do that not only because of its name recognition, but because of the impact that it has for developers worldwide. I think being able to grow our businesses in Austin is key for us. We’ve already mentioned that we’re out of office space, and so we’re having to grow into that region, but we’ve expanded our footprint within the market way more than just increasing our office space. We’ve got internship programs where we’re partnering with some of our incredible universities to bring in those individuals who want to get into the footprint of technology.

(14:33):

And because oftentimes they’re already aware of our product, it’s a really good opportunity for them to partner with some of the best minds in the business that are working on our product, both driving the product and driving the technology. And so we have really robust internship programs where we give them exposure into what we do, and then those eventually lead to full-time jobs and we have the opportunity to put those interns into multiple markets because we are spread across the globe. And so we’re really proud of exposing those individuals and it helps us to hire those right people from the very beginning. We are working really hard to be standout or a world-class choice for employees. And so because of that, we leverage a lot of our hires based on referrals, whether those are from customers or from internal employees. And we really focus on providing that experience for individuals that they’re proud to work here and doing that in a way that gives them a work-life balance, but also a rewarding package so that their impact that they have in driving our product forward is rewarded for them on the backend through multiple things, whether it’s activities, giving back to our community, really amazing benefits packages to be able to support them when they’re not at work to learning and development opportunities so they can continue to grow in their career so that we’re bringing them in as a world-class employee and then we’re giving them the tools and resources to even be better than what they ever could have been.

(15:55):

And all of those things coupled together are helping us get that top talent in that Texas market to be able to work for our company.

Chris (16:02):

So of course you’ve talked a lot about it, but I want to dig a little deeper about culture,

Clarissa (16:07):

One

Chris (16:07):

Of my favorite topics. So how would you describe the culture at Sonar?

Clarissa (16:12):

Yeah, that’s a great question and one of the favorite things, we could talk about this for the entire time, but we use an acronym to talk about our culture and it’s actually code and it stands for committed, obsessed, deliberate, and then based on what team you’re on, it could mean efficient or it could mean effective. The committed is being committed to what it is that we do as a company for our customers and our clients, but it’s also that we’re really committed to each other. Everyone at Sonar has a voice and all those voices are heard, and we’re really good at a collaborative work environment where we talk about things in joint sessions and we have nuances to that that I’m really happy for. We do this thing called chickening, and what it basically means is anybody in the company at any time can sit in on generally any meeting so that they really understand that collaboration between teams and departments. So if you are on the product team, you can sit in on marketing so that you understand what that’s about. If you are on an IT team, you can sit in with products so you can understand the roadmap. And so it’s really helping our employees understand what we do as a company so that everybody is moving in the same direction, are obsessed, really is closely tied to committed, obsessed about what we do, obsessed about who we are and obsessed about the impact that we make both internally and externally to our clients.

Chris (17:25):

Love that word by the way.

Clarissa (17:26):

Me

Chris (17:27):

Too. I mean, it’s impactful, right?

Clarissa (17:29):

It’s really great. We have pictures throughout the office that are code and it’s this big bright acronym that’s posted everywhere. So it’s really in front of everybody, and we talk about it all the time for Deliberate. We really do make deliberate choices. We listen to our customers, we listen to our employees, and we navigate throughout our company decisions based on a lot of that feedback. We’ve got incredible moderators that are out there listening to the voice of what our customers are, and they’re sharing that information on a regular basis. We’re constantly iterating on how we do things so that we can do it better every time that we tackle the project again, and then the of course, efficient, effective, right? Based on the team that you’re on. We try and do things in the best interest of the company, and we also really embrace this culture that it’s okay to ask questions and it’s okay to make mistakes as long as we recognize what those are and we get back up and we try again.

(18:17):

And all of those things combined really drive a culture here that is extremely positive as a global workforce. It helps establish the criteria and expectations that we have across the company, but it also drives those relationships so that everybody understands where we’re going and what we’re trying to do and everybody is all in and doing it together. We do regular All Hands where we talk about everything transparently, including what most companies don’t do is we take live q and a at the end and we answer them in real time. So transparency is really important for us. We want our employees to understand that they’re here and that their voice matters and to reward that every year. We also have this really amazing incentive that we have called a company Growth Incentive. And so we establish milestones in the beginning of the year and every employee at Sonar is rewarded for their actions and activities by a growth incentive or an award bonus at the end of the year.

(19:10):

And it’s the same amount regardless of what role that you’re in, because everybody here matters for what we’re doing every day and everybody gets to celebrate in the rewards of those achievements through the company. So we do our best to make sure that our people know that we wouldn’t be here without the people that are driving the business, and we hope that reflects when we talk to our customers, and it clearly is reflected in the business. I mean, we hired 231 people last year, and that’s amazing considering all of the trends across the globe where that companies were downsizing and collapsing, and Sonar was really great at making sure that we did exactly opposite. And it’s only May 28th. We’ve already sent out 158 offers just this year. So we’re on track to double that number, which just shows that we’re doing something right here and that we’re really happy with what we’re doing. It’s

Chris (19:57):

Amazing. It really is. That’s kudos to you. And I love, I mean culture. You can have stuff on the wall and you can have your sayings, but unless it’s really ingrained into the organization, it doesn’t matter how colorful the signs are or whatnot, but I do like the connection to code and what you do. So let me ask you, Lynn, Clarissa shared one of those values about Deliberate is listening to customers, and that’s where you sit, right? Hello, friends, this is Chris Hanzlik, your building Texas business host. Did you know that Boyer Miller, the producer of this podcast is a business law firm that works with entrepreneurs, corporations, and business leaders. Our team of attorneys serve as strategic partners to businesses by providing legal guidance to organizations of all sizes. Get to know the firm@boyermiller.com and thanks for listening to the show. You’re on the front edge of that. What are you and your team doing, I guess in two ways? One, to listen to the customers, but also to stand out and be able to communicate the why sonar over your competition.

Lynn (21:07):

Yeah, it’s a really good question because software development is changing with AI as a tool, as a practice, as it’s pervasive in everything. And we really fundamentally believe that this is a partnership between AI and humans. This is not an either or. This is not a one wins and the other loses. It’s how do we have that partnership? And I think our customers are in a sort of trial and error phase right now that we are trying to listen to and be there as a partner for them, and how do we help facilitate this for them instead of be silent in this? How do we facilitate them using AI and using AI effectively? And that’s really important for us. So we do spend a lot of time listening to customers. I would say there’s a lot of noise, and I think that’s something that we try to be a voice to our customers on is what’s the signal, what’s the noise, so to speak on ai because it’s hard to open anything in tech today and not see a dozen or more articles about AI and what’s new, and it is rapidly changing. And so I think for us to be a voice, to have a perspective on that and to help them with a solution, a here and now solution that they can use today as opposed to things that are maybe today ideas and concepts, but they’re more vaporware. We’re giving real solutions in the world today to help them solve and do ai, but do it better.

Chris (22:41):

Good. So Lynn, there’s always good times and bad times of business. What are some of the headwinds that you see that you’re dealing with as you’re trying to deal with customers, grow the business, whether that’s unique to Texas or just general in your industry?

Lynn (22:57):

Yeah, I think that one of the things that is a challenge today is this need to do constant enablement of our team and education and conversations with customers about changes that we’re seeing. I remember, and I’ve been doing technology with customers for a long time, and there were times where you’d sort of have a product or a trend or some innovation and it would be months and years that you talk about the same thing. And now I feel like it’s weeks or days or sometimes even minutes that things change. And so I think that’s a real challenge for our customers to stay up on, to stay educated on, but also for our teams that need to be experts on this. And so it’s a real challenge as Clarissa talked about how many people we’ve hired is how do we bring them in and educate them on what we do today, but also what we do today changes tomorrow and changes the next day and changes the next day. And so I think that’s a challenge for all of us in technology today is that the sort of lifespan of technology has gotten so much shorter, and so our focus on educating our own employees, but doing that in partnership with customers is a constant uphill battle.

Chris (24:23):

Makes sense. Clarissa, what about you from the HR perspective? What are some of the headwinds and challenges that you’re facing as you’re trying to help, you’re really trying to feed the machine with people and talent so that they can continue to drive the business, but what are some of the challenges with finding those people and integrating those people?

Clarissa (24:44):

Yeah, that’s a great question and a real problem sometimes, right? Because we’re not the only company in Texas that realizes how great it is to be in Texas, and because of that, oftentimes we’re up against really large organizations that have now made Texas their home and they have compelling stories and we have compelling stories, and some of those are larger, really well-known companies, and so it’s a constant battle to find really great talent. I feel like we have a really good position in the market to be able to find those individuals, and we have a great reputation, which is very helpful. But when you’re talking to a candidate who has other really amazing Texas companies that they’re also speaking to, it is kind of a little bit like a talent war. And because we’re growing so quickly, we are trying to constantly hire these individuals.

(25:32):

And so the pipeline really never ends for us, meaning we close one requisition and right behind it, we’re opening it up so we think we found the best person and then all of a sudden we’re restarting the cycle and every employee that we’re hiring here is fantastic. We say that we’re constantly raising the bar, and so the expectations are changing, which means we’re constantly evaluating that we are a world-class employer with the best offerings, and so the cycle never ends. But we’ve been really fortunate to be able to have people want to work with us because they understand what we’re doing, and we celebrate every time somebody says yes regardless of their role, because every person that’s here is important to us and helping to drive what it is that we’re doing.

Chris (26:13):

So I’m going to give you a tough question. Okay, go. Because one of the things I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners, hiring is such an important decision and such a challenging thing to do. No one’s perfect, right? We don’t always get it right. So I’m going to ask you, when you realize that it’s not working out, maybe just advice one or two things that you would recommend to people when you’re facing that decision of you realize this hire is not working out, it’s time to move on. Any tips that you’ve learned over the years doing HR that even though it’s hard to do when you’re affecting people’s life, any tips on that?

Clarissa (26:51):

Yeah, that’s the worst part of my career to be honest with you, is you want everybody to be successful just like you want your company to be successful. My piece of advice would be to really try and do everything you can on the front end to make sure that the person that you’re bringing in understands not only the expectations but what the environment is going to be. And like Lynn said, enablement is really important and that goes for customers, but it also goes for your employees. And so kind of trying to be ahead of that conversation before it ever starts. It’s not always possible, but give them the resources that they need. At Sonar, we assign individuals both a point of contact and a mentor, and we also put them through an extremely robust training program. We try and check all of those boxes when they’re hired to make sure that it doesn’t get to that point, but if in fact the job isn’t right for somebody, and jobs aren’t always right for people and it’s a really hard decision, we do try and give individuals that attention that they need to be able to help them be on track, whether that’s additional one-on-one training or pulling them aside to reestablish the connection between what they’re doing and what we need them to do.

(27:55):

But sometimes it doesn’t unfortunately work out for people. The one thing that Sonar does really well is we do everything in our power to treat people with the outmost kindness. We have a really built-in contractual exit periods because we firmly believe that individuals in Texas need that off-ramp period in order to secure their next dream job, even if unfortunately it’s not with Sonar, and we do everything we can to set them up for success. When people need to depart the company, we give them reference letters so that they have the opportunity to leverage that, and we make ourselves widely available to help them secure their next job. And then we do exit interviews so that we can collect that feedback so we can hopefully stop that cycle. Our attrition rates here are really low, so we are very fortunate, but in the unlikely event that they need to leave, we leave on really good terms.

(28:42):

I mean, we hire people because they’re brilliant, but we keep them because they become part of who we are and the fabric of Sonar and every exit that we have is painful for us, but we really do everything we can to make sure that person’s set up for success. And sometimes that’s leveraging our extensive networks, and sometimes it’s putting people into partnerships with other companies where they may be a better fit because it is a small technology state, right? A lot of us communicate on a regular basis through agencies and entities, and so the referral network is really strong and we do everything we can to make sure that those people are set up for success, even if it’s not with Sonar.

Chris (29:18):

Well, thank you. Thanks for sharing great advice. It looks like it’s very well thought out on the front and back end, which I think is what’s most important, right? Being thoughtful and to your core value, deliberate about it. So Lynn, I want to ask you a little bit about leadership. I’d like for you to share how you see your leadership style and how do you think that’s evolved or adapted as this role and sonars grown and your team has grown?

Lynn (29:43):

I think my leadership style has changed a lot over the years. I mean, I think earlier in my career it was more about how do I get the next step? How do I do something? And I think as I’ve gotten bigger roles, I realized it’s not about me, it’s about what I can do for other people. And so I very much think my leadership style is how do I make people better? How do I leave the company, the organization, the individuals in a better place because I was a part of it, and play a role in people’s careers that goes long beyond any given quarter or year in a go to market leadership position? I always think about the fact that nobody remembers in 2018 I did the best quarter ever, but people remember the person who gave them a chance, the person who supported them when they didn’t have confidence. And I think through my career I’ve seen that even more and gotten more realization. That’s really what leadership is about. Fundamentally, I need to deliver the business for this company so we’re successful and everybody can have jobs, but for me as a leader, it’s more about the individuals that I get to impact through the job.

Chris (31:03):

Very nice. Clarissa, how about you? And you’ve been in this role for some time, but how do you see your leadership style? How do you think it’s evolved and changed and kind of share that journey with us?

Clarissa (31:14):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, HR in general has completely changed since I’ve been doing this in my career. It started where we would almost be considered policemen and enforcing the rules, and it’s really morphed into more of a consultant type of environment. So I’ve found that establishing familiarity with the employees and really strong partnership with our managers and leaders within the company. I mean, our executive team really thinks exactly like Lynn said, right? We are here to make sure that the individuals who work for us and under us are better than us. And I firmly believe that making sure that the people who are driving the business feel heard and that we offer them the transparency that they need. And we openly talk about how to be successful here because I mean, to be honest, I’m not going to be in this role forever. Eventually I want to go live in the Texas Hill country and my best life.

(32:02):

I need to make sure that the individuals who report to me and work under me are able to step in to not only the expectations for how to be a good HR representative for a company, but also to understand what that means and what attributes you need. I think that for me, I have a strong moral compass and leveraging that moral compass through transparency and collaboration and guidance, I try and impart that into every employee. I really think it’s important, and I’ve learned through my leadership growth period, is to really taking the time to listen and hear what the employees are saying and responding back to them in a way that I would expect when I was at their career stage to be responded to. And that’s one thing that sonar is really good at is making sure that everybody understands that their voice is important, and taking the time to be able to not only answer things like live questions on an all hands, but to openly and transparently talk about the good and the bad, the growth and the learning and the successes and the failures.

Chris (32:58):

Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about how you integrate, and Lynn, I’ll start with you. How do you integrate this professional life that is demanding with your personal interest and making sure there’s some time for you and family and friends and whatnot? I use the word integration not balanced. I don’t think it is a better use of what you do from my perspective, what you do to make it work.

Lynn (33:21):

I totally agree with integration. I totally agree with integration. I think I have never found balance, but I have found integration. And so I think a lot of it is having for me. So I’ll first start by saying I’m not maybe the best at any concept of balance, but I do think it’s important to have priorities. For me, exercise is a priority. I think I can’t be good at what I do here every day if I’m not fit and healthy and strong and here for the marathon, not just the sprint. And so I try to think of that integration as it’s a marathon, not a sprint. And so I have some things that are sort of non-negotiable priorities, and that doesn’t mean every day, every week, every quarter is equal, but I think it is really important to have the things that are very important to you.

(34:18):

The other thing that maybe it’s less advice about the integration or balance, it’s more about recognizing that working is about having different chapters of the book, and there’s probably chapters where I’m way more balanced, so to speak, in work and way more balanced in life and viewing things as it’s not forever. It’s one chapter. And that I think when you are feeling guilty about the things that you miss or the things that you didn’t get to, having this view that I’m just in this chapter and that chapter isn’t the whole book. So maybe that’s my advice for how do I not feel guilty when I’m not doing something or doing something as well as I think I ought to be.

Chris (35:05):

Great perspective. Thank you. Perspective. Clarissa

Clarissa (35:09):

Lynn is also leaving off that she takes fitness to a new level. When she comes to Austin, she rallies the troops here and they all go to a cycling class to not only get out there, spent up energy, but to also reward and push through and hit other milestones. So she thought successfully convinced me to go, but that’s something she does every time she’s in Austin with the team.

Lynn (35:30):

I love it.

Clarissa (35:31):

I also agree, I do not have balance myself. I have more than I did earlier in my career where I was trying to figure out what it means to be a leader for an organization. My role is a little bit different than everyone else’s because people have needs and you never know when those needs are going to occur. I deal with the employee and not necessarily the product. And so sometimes there may be an emergency that occurs on a weekend or somebody may need a clarification on something or people just might need help, and I need to be there when those individuals need to be there. I’ve established a really good cadence and balance for offsetting if I need to be there for an employee on a Saturday at 11:00 PM to being able to balance that with something during the week. I’m a big fan of, even though our employees work really hard, grabbing people and dragging them out for coffee, just to not only reset my own self, but to be able to help them reset and pulling people into different environments and cultures and acknowledging to people that I know that I don’t have really solid balance and that don’t do what I do, what you need to do, and giving them the tools to be able to do that.

(36:35):

It does help. Lynn and I both are lucky to be able to travel to multiple offices, so we have forced downtime sometimes when we’re on airplanes, and so we do have those reset periods, but we’re able to hit the ground running when we start again, and each market’s different. So we try and do the best that we can. I try and do the best that I can. Sometimes I’m great at it and sometimes I’m not great at it.

Chris (36:56):

Well, I think that’s all you can do, and I think the biggest thing is knowing that you’re not always going to get it right.

(37:00):

We put a lot of pressure on ourselves and then maybe so does the rest of the world and just knowing that it’s going to be okay and your intentions matter a lot. And so if you know that, so look, I really appreciate the two of you sharing not just a sonar story, but a little bit of your own. You are on a Texas podcast, so I do like to end this way. I’m going to start with Clarissa. I give Lynn a little bit of time. I know Lynn just travels to and from Texas, but Clarissa, do you prefer Tex-Mex or barbecue?

Clarissa (37:28):

Definitely barbecue.

Chris (37:29):

Okay. No hesitation. I love it.

Lynn (37:32):

Done none at all. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent barbecue.

Chris (37:35):

Love it. Y’all agree on that?

Lynn (37:37):

I’m going to book us a lunch. Lynn,

Chris (37:39):

Favorite barbecue place in Austin.

Lynn (37:41):

Franklin.

Chris (37:42):

There you go. There you go. She reads the press clippings. Alright, well ladies, look, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast. Congratulations for all the success you’re having with Sonar. Love that the company chose Austin and Texas to put their stake in the ground and just pleased to see it going so well.

Clarissa (38:02):

Yeah, us too. Thank you for having us. Yeah, I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much.

Chris (38:07):

Okay, Mackenzie, cut it there. Great job ladies. Come on, Katie.

Clarissa (38:11):

Good conversation. Love to listen in. You made it nice

Lynn (38:15):

And easy, Chris. Thank

Clarissa (38:16):

You. Yeah, no, well you’re welcome. Thank you. If you decide to leave Houston and head up to Austin, please call us linen. I’ll take you to barbecue

Chris (38:24):

And spinning class

Clarissa (38:25):

And

Lynn (38:26):

Spin class. I’ll tell you like

Chris (38:27):

Tex Barbecue. What’s that?

Lynn (38:29):

Tex-Mex or barbecue? Oh,

Chris (38:32):

See, it’s hard because I’m born and raised here, so I usually say, I mean, if when I’m gone, the way I have to gauge that is if I’m out of town in a different state for a period of time, when I come back, what’s the first thing I really want? The truth is it’d be TexMex. I love barbecue. And as you may see in Austin, there’s some people doing it here. They’re blending it, right? So you have brisket, tacos and things right down the street from our office, we have a barbecue place called the Pit Room, and they own a Tex-Mex next door and they use the barbecue so you can get brisket, nachos and brisket tacos. It’s

Clarissa (39:09):

Delicious. Well, maybe we’ll come visit you. That sounds lovely. Come on.

Chris (39:13):

Hey, if you’re ever in Houston, holler at me. But yes, I was like with Lynn, I’m kind of a fitness freak, so spinning and

Lynn (39:21):

Pilates,

Chris (39:22):

But I’m like, I have to and I have to do it in the morning where it doesn’t happen. But if I’m not taking care of myself, I don’t have, it takes a lot of energy to do what we do and I feel like

Clarissa (39:32):

You’re not, I’m the local Pilates girl, so she can take you to spin and I’ll do Pilates with you and then we’ll all

Chris (39:37):

Go back reformer. I do reformer Pilates,

Clarissa (39:39):

I do reformer. Yep, yep. It’s a lot harder than it looks, but it’s 55 minutes in and out and then you’re done

Chris (39:45):

Harder than, yeah, you’re right. Those machines make it look easy. It is nothing, it is not anything close to easy.

Clarissa (39:50):

Not at all.

Chris (39:51):

But yeah, so well good. But seriously, I’d love to stay in touch. So yeah, if I’m in Austin, I will give you a ring and please do if you’re headed this way.

Clarissa (39:59):

Yeah, we’d love that. We’re right downtown, so we’d love to host you. So you let us know when you’re in this area and we’ll let you know when we’re in yours. Thank you

Chris (40:05):
And there we have it. Another great episode. Don’t forget to check out the show notes at boyarmiller.com/podcast and you can find out more about all the ways our firm can help you at boyarmiller.com. That’s it for this episode. Have a great week and we’ll talk to you next time.