Ep 112- Five Years In: What's Changed and What Still Matters with Bethany Andell

Transcript

Transcripts are generated by machine learning, so typos may be present.

Chris Hanslik: All right, Bethany, welcome back to Building Texas Business.

Bethany Andell: Thank you. Five years.

Chris Hanslik: I know. First of all, I can’t believe it’s been five years. And thank you to you and your team for being not just part of what started this, but for being along the whole journey.

Bethany Andell: Absolutely. It’s a blast to watch it grow.

Chris Hanslik: So, let’s go back. You were literally one of the first guests five years ago. When you think back to what we were talking about then, what do you think are some of the biggest changes in business today?

Bethany Andell: I think what comes to mind for me is that we used to plan for change. You knew things were going to change, and you would try to plan for that change. But now, it’s all about planning through change.

Chris Hanslik: That’s well put.

Bethany Andell: Right? I mean, I talk to clients and I feel this myself—I’m sure you do—where it’s like we’re driving down the freeway at 80 miles per hour while trying to change the tires at the same time. Well, that just is “now.” That’s not a moment in time; it’s like a recurring expense you think is one-time, but it’s not—it’s every month. My world has changed in business that way, and even to some degree in my personal life.

Chris Hanslik: For sure. On that note, you’re out in the community a lot. What do you hear from CEOs that is on their radar more now than in the past?

Bethany Andell: It’s all going to tie in a bow around the word “velocity” or speed—how to make decisions under the pressure of doing things faster while the world changes daily. So, I make a decision today based on the facts I have, I communicate it to my team, and then tomorrow the world looks very different. So, either I have to stick to that decision with a new set of facts—or theories—because I’ve already communicated it, or I’ve got to backtrack or change it and then re-communicate. That’s a really hard place to be. And then you’ve got outside pressures, like investors wanting you to grow faster, everyone wanting everything faster, and consolidation and M&A—you’re dealing with that at BoyarMiller.

Chris Hanslik: Sure, sure.

Bethany Andell: That’s just compounding that effect. And then AI is an obvious piece of that.

Chris Hanslik: Of course, and we’ll talk a lot about that, I’m sure. You also can’t exclude outside forces—political and geopolitical things. All of that, in my experience, has created and continues to create an immense amount of uncertainty. So, not just for the leader trying to steer the ship—like you said, you have to learn to pivot—but that uncertainty is real within the organization. Sometimes as a leader, you lose sight of how big that impact can be at the lower levels of the organization.

Bethany Andell: Well, and they’re looking to you for answers in times that you don’t even actually know the answer.

Chris Hanslik: Right.

Bethany Andell: So, where do I show leadership and say, “This is the vision and this is where we’re headed, and these are some of the bigger decisions we’ve made,” and balance that with, “I don’t have all the answers; I don’t know what tomorrow may bring, but I want you to be on this ride with me”? It’s an interesting thing to grapple with because you don’t want to make anybody nervous.

Chris Hanslik: Right. The job is to kind of calm the waters, right? That’s right. That becomes a daily effort.

Bethany Andell: It’s daily.

Chris Hanslik: With advances in technology, and the velocity of change being more than before, specialized services can become commoditized. When you look at the core of your business—helping people build, maintain, and grow a brand—what are some of the mistakes you see leaders make when they try to differentiate their brand in a world like this?

Bethany Andell: I think one of the first mistakes is thinking you are a commodity. I understand there are commodity markets, like oil, but the company that produces the oil is not a commodity. The people who work for you are not a commodity. If you think about the value of the BoyarMiller brand or the Savage brand, it’s about our ethos, our purpose, how we act, and the relationships we’ve built. There are ways to differentiate that aren’t based on your product itself. I know that with marketing, you could say AI is commoditizing a lot of the execution of the product we deliver. That doesn’t worry me because that’s not who we are or what differentiates us. Our products and how we treat our clients will always shift over time.

Chris Hanslik: That’s really good. Going a little deeper, what are some of the things you’re doing at Savage to make sure that holds, and how are you working with clients to help them navigate that?

Bethany Andell: We’re living in a world right now where we’re “teaching a man to fish.” There’s a lot of pull from clients to do things in-house now that they have AI. But you want to be careful to do it the right way. We’ve started a new offering at Savage where we embed people at some of our clients’ companies to help their marketing or sales organizations use AI correctly. You don’t want to use an agency if you’re choosing to do it in-house, but AI, if used right, can be very powerful; if used wrong, it can be very damaging to your credibility. The whole trust conversation is huge right now. Another piece is maintaining control of your voice. AI can do a lot for you, but it can’t create “who you are.” Helping train models and agents on who you are, how you sound, and how you want to talk to your audience is key.

Chris Hanslik: How do you help companies separate their brand as one that earns trust versus one that is just “noise” or just seeking attention? How do you rise to the top?

Bethany Andell: Two things. One, people trust people more than they trust companies. We’re seeing a rise in the importance of thought leadership coming from individuals, not just from the corporate voice. Personal branding—what is Chris Hanslik’s point of view? Where is your market authority? That builds brand equity for BoyarMiller because people trust you. The second thing is the follow-through of the message. It’s easy to think about marketing in terms of lead generation, but it’s more important to look at the experience delivered after they’ve signed the contract. That’s where the rubber meets the road. Marketing is moving into customer experience and employee experience to build a reputation and raving fans. Those fans are trusted by others, and they pull you back through the loop.

Chris Hanslik: I just read an article in the Harvard Business Review about creating amazing experiences for employees and customers to create loyalty. The article said you want your customer or employee to have such an amazing experience that they use the word “love.”

Bethany Andell: It’s okay to use the word love in business.

Chris Hanslik: It is. That may be one of the biggest changes in the last five years. There’s a Houston-based company that has written books about “love as a strategy.” It sounds like your team is trying to help clients with that. You mentioned that the brand starts with individuals. Companies are just an accumulation of individuals, so culture becomes important.

Bethany Andell: And your people are your brand.

Chris Hanslik: What do you see the best companies today doing to create people-centric, employee-centric cultures?

Bethany Andell: One thing is that we, as leaders, need to be okay with investing in the individual’s brand. There is a fear that if I invest so much in Mary or Bob, their personal brand becomes portable value, and they could leave. That is a risk I have to take. But I’m also developing that person as a coach, a mentor, and a professional. I have to be okay with that because they’re creating a lot of value for my company and my clients during that process. We have to get over the fear that an employee might leave the next day.

Chris Hanslik: That fear is born from a lack of trust. It goes back to building trusted relationships as the fabric of your culture.

Bethany Andell: The second thing is: it’s easy to say, “I know what I want from my employees—I want them to show up on time, work hard, and be productive.” But the lens is changing. It should be: “What do I want for my employees? What do I want for my customers?” If you design experiences around that, it engages them and builds loyalty.

Chris Hanslik: We talk here about training and growing great attorneys who build relationships and bring in business. We know they could pick up and leave, but we want to create a culture where they choose to stay. That’s the challenge: creating an environment where people feel welcome, encouraged, and aligned with what the organization stands for.

Bethany Andell: On the client side, it’s the same. I know what I want *from* my clients: I want them to hire me, pay on time, and respect my opinions. But what do I want *for* my clients? At BoyarMiller, you offer office space and generosity of spirit—you want me to have a way to commune and bring people in. It’s a shift, but when you say, “I want these things for my clients,” it comes back in spades.

Chris Hanslik: It’s about looking at it from the customer’s perspective—what problems are they trying to solve? When you do that, you find you don’t have to change much, but there are subtle nuances to how you deliver your services.

Bethany Andell: And back to commodities, how you deliver the service might be the thing that differentiates you.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah. When you look at some of the cultural work that y’all have been doing recently, are there any trends that stand out? We’ve been through a lot over the last few years.

Bethany Andell: We have.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: There is research methodology now where you can identify your influencers by name. In the past, if a leader had a message, you’d have a town hall, the message would cascade down, and then it would fall apart at the L2 or L3 level. Now, we use influencer research to say, “This 3% of the company has influence over 85% of the company.” Let’s talk to them. They’re the voice.

Chris Hanslik: Interesting.

Bethany Andell: They have the information, and they can make or break any initiative we need to communicate.

Chris Hanslik: You need to get them on your side.

Bethany Andell: Exactly. Everything from M&A integration to leadership succession—behavioral shifts need to happen. Going “small to get big” is changing the landscape of internal communications.

Chris Hanslik: It makes total sense because most of the organization is already getting their daily information from social media influencers. You see big brands picking a few people to grow a following that creates interest for the company.

Bethany Andell: But you have those people in your company.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: You have those people in your company, and sometimes they’re naysayers. You need to know who those people are, and it’s never who you think it is.

Chris Hanslik: Right.

Bethany Andell: And you need to know that too, right? I mean, you need to know who those people are.

Chris Hanslik: Absolutely.

Bethany Andell: And it’s never who you think it is.

Chris Hanslik: Let’s talk about AI. Where are the opportunities for companies trying to adopt AI without losing the humanity and personal touch?

Bethany Andell: Well, I’m kind of, this may be a weird answer to this question, but.

Chris Hanslik: We’re all for weird answers here.

Bethany Andell: I think we need to stop thinking of AI as a tool and start thinking of it as a teammate.

Chris Hanslik: That’s a big mindset shift. We’re not there yet.

Bethany Andell: We’re not there yet.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: But we all have to just kind of shift our thinking to… And I’ve seen… I was just at a conference and a company was presenting and they presented their… They showed their org chart and their org chart had AI agent boxes named.

Chris Hanslik: Wow.

Bethany Andell: We’re not. But I was at a conference where a company showed their org chart, and it had AI agent boxes named “Susan” or “Mark.” They’re reorganizing based on how work gets done, integrating AI teammates into the workflow. It shapeshifts the traditional model of an org chart. And I think we’re actually leaning more into humanity. AI is making people more efficient, which gives them the opportunity to leverage their highest and best use—the very human work of building relationships, providing strategy, and thinking creatively—while AI augments what they’re creating.

Chris Hanslik: Into the workflow process. Yes. Yeah.

Bethany Andell: because it shapeshifts the whole traditional model of an orchard. So that’s one thing. And then, and I think it actually, I’m feeling like we’re leaning more heavily into humanity. So the more we adopt AI, to me, it’s not about replacing people at this point in my world. It is, those people are becoming a lot more efficient. Now I’ve got, an opportunity to leverage those people at their highest and best use, which is typically at a very human level, building better relationships, creating better one-on-one experiences or group experiences, providing strategy, creating, thinking those things, and then having AI kind of augment or amplify what they’re creating. And so let’s still be very human, you know, and try to lean a little bit more into that.

Chris Hanslik: It’s about softening the anxiety around job elimination. It will eliminate some jobs, but it’s about companies and employees learning to leverage it to do their jobs better.

Bethany Andell: I’ve told my team: the people who are going to lose their jobs because of AI are the ones who haven’t learned how to use and leverage it.

Chris Hanslik: Does AI make the brand more important or less important?

Bethany Andell: More important. Everyone is out there, everyone is capable of amplifying who they are. It’s noisier than ever. So, it boils down to: which information am I going to trust? That’s where your brand is. You want to be one of the trusted sources, which folds back into how important human beings are—the thought leadership, the authenticity, and the credibility of the information. AI can’t create a brand.

Chris Hanslik: Right.

Bethany Andell: So you want to be one of the trusted sources, which then folds back into how important the human beings are, the thought leadership, the quality and the authenticity and the credibility of the information that any one company is providing. So I’d say brand is absolutely paramount right now because AI can’t create a brand.

Chris Hanslik: Or the emotional connection. What advice would you give to someone looking to start a company today, given the environment?

Bethany Andell: Don’t rely on AI to get at the essence of who you are, what your vision is, or your values. You decide what the business is about. Use AI to formulate a plan, but don’t let it make those foundational decisions for you.

Chris Hanslik: To be successful long-term, your company has to have a soul and an identity. AI isn’t going to give you that.

Bethany Andell: Yes.

Chris Hanslik: And an identity. And AI is not going to give you that.

Bethany Andell: It’s not going to give that to you.

Chris Hanslik: But if you work on those foundational things yourself with your team, your partners, whatever. Right. Your values.

Bethany Andell: It won’t. You don’t want to ask AI to create your company’s values.

Chris Hanslik: No. Because then they would not be your values.

Bethany Andell: That’s right.

Chris Hanslik: Right. Correct.

Bethany Andell: This is interesting because you and I have the value of experience.

Chris Hanslik: Shut your mouth. I’m not that old.

Bethany Andell: I don’t know what it will look like for generations growing up with AI, because we have years of experience.

Chris Hanslik: I like that—we have “experience.” The world wants everything faster, and that younger generation has grown up in that. But I remember being counseled by a mentor on the value of patience. That was a hard lesson to learn, and I’m still a bit impatient, but over time, I learned that taking your time to make informed decisions is valuable. I hope we can pass that down.

Bethany Andell: We’ve moved into this remote and hybrid world, and it’s difficult to coach and train people when you’re not with them daily. How much knowledge transfer happens because you’re in the same room? We’re compounding that with AI, where people rely on it for training. But you still need experience to feed the knowledge.

Chris Hanslik: One of the challenges for any organization in those first one-to-five years is that we learned through experience and grinding it out in the office. AI can now automate a lot of that work. So, how are we going to train people in those first five to seven years when there’s less of that entry-level work?

Bethany Andell: And what do you do with the hourly rate for a lot of professional service companies?

Chris Hanslik: It’s going to be altered significantly. So, you know, when you think about, you know, I guess what we’ve been through in these challenges, when you look at yourself, how do you think you have evolved as a leader over these past five years?

Bethany Andell: I’ve been reminded that I need to “go first.” Don’t ask things from others that you’re not willing to do yourself. It’s easy to fall into the trap of, “I’m the boss, I want you to do those things.” But that’s not leading. Going into the fire first—I’ve re-acclimated to that, and I love it. I love working on the business, but I enjoy rolling up my sleeves and figuring it out with everybody else.

Chris Hanslik: There’s a concept about the “dance floor” and the “balcony.” As a leader, you need to determine when to be on the dance floor in the middle of the action, and when to get on the balcony to observe how it’s being implemented.

Bethany Andell: It’s hard because it all takes energy, time.

Chris Hanslik: Well, yes. And a lot of people love, because if you started the business, you’re just used to being in it. That’s where you’re probably comfortable. And you’ve got to learn to step out so you can work on it. You speak on panels all the time and around. So what are some of the things you’re hearing business leaders in this community talk about? it’s a two-part question. Where are some themes of opportunities and excitement that you’re hearing about going forward? And then the reverse, where are you hearing some maybe concern or headwinds that people are maybe trying to plan for?

Bethany Andell: The opportunity is that we all have a chance to reinvent ourselves. I’m used to my company reinventing itself every five years due to technology. But I’ve never operated in a world where everyone is trying to figure it out at the same time. That excites me. The risk is getting out over our skis and thinking AI is the end-all-be-all for efficiency or cutting costs, only to find it didn’t deliver what we expected. I’m cautiously optimistic—it’s okay to slow down, do it right, and build over time instead of trying to consume it all at once.

Chris Hanslik: And I think that how you manage through that as a leader goes back to what we talked about earlier. It could have a positive impact, but if not done right, a negative impact on your culture. Yes, absolutely. So then any kind of – mind shifts, changes for you as you think about thinking about moving into the future differently than maybe what you would have done five years ago?

Bethany Andell: I’m leaning more into humanity. I’m looking at Savage’s strengths—which are relational—and asking what I’m willing to let go of. Can I move into this world of people, relationships, and culture, and let go of some of the execution? Can I be okay with a client doing it themselves, or a different agency being responsible for content? That’s a huge shift. We’re placing fractional designers now, which I never would have put on our scoreboard before.

Chris Hanslik: Sure.

Bethany Andell: Like I mentioned, like we’re now placing fractional designers and fractional.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: I never would have put that on our scoreboard.

Chris Hanslik: Sure.

Bethany Andell: So.

Chris Hanslik: You have to continue to reinvent your business. Look at what’s changing, find the opportunities, and figure out how to take advantage of them.

Bethany Andell: The mind shift is also being able to let go. I’m a collector—I want to do everything. But you can’t keep everything. If you never let go, you become a generalist, which isn’t okay either. I’m also looking at my clients’ strengths. The world is so negative right now. The best brands focus on their strengths. Ultimately, those strengths will make the negative noise stop.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: Because I’m a collector. I’m like, oh, we can do that and we can do that and we can do that. And don’t let go of anything. It all makes sense in this universe, right?

Chris Hanslik: Right.

Bethany Andell: And then, yeah, and you never let go of anything. And then, you know, you’re a generalist.

Chris Hanslik: Right.

Bethany Andell: Which is not okay either. So that’s been important. And then the other is just kind of this, for my clients, is looking at their strengths. I think we’re in this world, literally world, that’s negative.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: And when I think about the companies I work with and the best brands I know, whether I’m involved with them or not, or they’re just out there, they’re focused on their strengths. Like we need to pull up the strengths because ultimately the strengths will make all of those bad things go away and stop working on these like symptomatic.

Chris Hanslik: There’s been so much written about not losing sight of where you need to improve, but the main focus should be on your strengths. That’s how you really scale and go to another level. It makes sense because what you do well comes naturally to you. You want to shore up your weaknesses, but if you spend too much time on that, you won’t spend enough time on what makes you great.

Bethany Andell: Right.

Chris Hanslik: And you think about it, it makes total sense, right? Because what you do really well comes natural to you. And some of that is learning. Maybe since we’re not so good at something, we can let go of that. And you want to shore up your weaknesses. But if you spend too much time focusing on that, you won’t spend enough time on what really makes you great.

Bethany Andell: Right. And we have as consultants, whether you’re a lawyer or branding, your tendency is to think of yourself as a problem solver.

Chris Hanslik: Right.

Bethany Andell: So you’re even starting the conversation with what are the challenges?

Chris Hanslik: The negative, right?

Bethany Andell: As consultants, our tendency is to think of ourselves as problem-solvers, so we start the conversation with challenges. Instead, it should be: these great brands have all these strengths—how can we pull that out?

Chris Hanslik: So it’s exciting. Final question. What are you the most optimistic about as it relates to business when you think about the next couple of years?

Bethany Andell: I’m really excited about a younger workforce helping us figure this out. It’s a cool time to be in business with so many different generations colliding. We have an intern who is a sophomore at UT—it’s amazing to listen to her perspective. And by the way, she doesn’t really care that much about AI, which is so funny. Maybe the “old” people are just too nervous or too excited. I’m just excited to have a younger workforce show us what’s new and relevant.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: Amazing. Just to listen to her speak and see her perspective. And by the way, she doesn’t really care that much about AI, which is so funny. I’m like, huh.

Chris Hanslik: Really?

Bethany Andell: But it’s going to keep us young and relevant. It’s easy to dismiss younger generations, but they’re going to know how to do this, and we just need to listen to them.

Chris Hanslik: That’s awesome. One definition of “old” for me is when we start hiring people who are my kids’ age. We’re there, even if I don’t feel like it.

Bethany Andell: Yep.

Chris Hanslik: I’m going to officially be old even though I don’t feel it. And we’re there. Yeah.

Bethany Andell: But it’s going to keep us young.

Chris Hanslik: That’s right.

Bethany Andell: It’s going to keep us relevant.

Chris Hanslik: That’s right.

Bethany Andell: And it’s easy to poo-poo on younger generations, but they’re going to know how to do this.

Chris Hanslik: Yeah.

Bethany Andell: And so we just need to listen to them.

Chris Hanslik: Thank you for coming back to celebrate five years and for all the support from you and your team at Savage. We get so much positive feedback about our website and social media, and we couldn’t be more appreciative.

Bethany Andell: I love hearing that. Thank you. I’ll be happy. I’ll tell the team.

Chris Hanslik: All right.

Bethany Andell: All right.

Chris Hanslik: Take care.

Bethany Andell: Thank you.